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DATE OF MEETING:      July 31, 2003


LOCATION:                   Municipal Services Complex 1st Floor Conference Room

                                    2901 17th Street, St. Cloud


CALL TO ORDER:         2:00 P.M.


CHAIRMAN:                  David Nearing, Planning/Zoning Director


SECRETARY:               Marty Hobbs, Development Officer



Dave Nearing                 Rick Mauro                    Tommy Howes               Mark Luthie                  

Dave Ennis                    John Groenendaal          Ron Trowell                   Angelo Perri                 

Major Faucett                Kristin Korkki                 Eric Morgan




1.         Case #3-96.02 – Crystal Creek

                                                Michigan Ave; N of Canoe Creek Woods; S of Indian Lakes

                                                Subdivision Variance


Mr. Jeremy Kibbler and Mr. Jim Askey were present to represent the application.




1.         This case has no effect on the building department.




1.         No comment.




1.         No comment




1.                   Cul-de sacs with no street parking shall be provided with a turnaround having an outside roadway diameter of at least one hundred feet (100’) and a street right of way diameter of one hundred twenty feet (120’). Cul-de-sacs shall have a maximum length of eight hundred feet (800’) including the turn around. (LDC 6.2.1L)


Mr. Kibbler noted that all of the requirements but the length would be met.  He also noted that he wanted the variance request to move forward even if not supported by staff.


Mr. Nearing noted that he wanted the applicant to be aware that if the variance moves forward without the support of staff, it was going to do so under great scrutiny from the Council.



2.         An eyebrow type turn or a t-type turn could be provided 600-800’ from the beginning of the cul-de sac.


The recommendation for use of an eyebrow type turn of t-type turn was discussed at length.


Mr. Askey noted that this option would result in the loss of two or more lots and he did not know if that would doable for his client.  He noted that they would look at the plan again and discuss it with the client.  He further noted that he would advise staff of how to proceed.


Page 2, DRC Minutes – 07/31/03




3.         The Fire Rescue Department does not support this variance.




1.                   Planning is reserving comment on this variance request until a final roadway layout has been determined. As discussed in the DRC meeting of July 17, 2003 the final location of the stormwater pond may change in order to save trees. 


Mr. Askey and Mr. Kibbler noted that they would like the plans to move forward with regard to the lot lines.


2.                   Has any attempt been made to connect into Indian Lakes (granted they would need to amend their PSP)?  This would result in the elimination of the variance request and provide interconnectivity. Provide documentation where they refused and why.


Mr. Kibbler noted that there was no intention to connect into Indian Lakes because that would not be feasible at this stage of their development.


Mr. Kibbler noted that he was in agreement with all of the other comments from staff.


Mr. Nearing asked if it would be possible to provide a twenty foot (20’) stabilized connection just for access by emergency services.


Mr. Asked noted that he would look into that possibility.


Mr. Nearing noted that it would have to be watched carefully to prevent people from planting trees or placing other obstructions in it noting that any such action would render the access useless.


Mr. Kibbler noted that it would need to be made an unobstructed emergency access easement.



3.               Recommend this request be tabled until the PSP is resubmitted.


4.                   Revised plans must be submitted within sixty (60) days of this review.  Revised plans submitted after the allotted time frame will require a new application including payment of additional fees.

5.                   All submitted plans must be folded at the time of submittal.  Rolled plans will not be accepted.




1.         This request will not have a negative impact on the St. Cloud Parks & Recreation Department.




1.         The District has no comment regarding this case.


Mr. Nearing recommended that the developer meet with the people at Greater Construction to discuss possible options for connection.


Mr. Kibbler asked what would be sufficient enough to satisfy the fire department.


Fire Marshall Ennis noted that an eyebrow was going to be needed to make the length acceptable.


Mr. Asked discussed the possibility of a secondary access.


Fire Marshall Ennis again noted that the only way to make it work would be to provide the eyebrow with the same radius as a cul-de-sac or to provide a T.



Page 3, DRC Minutes – 07/17/03



Mr. Asked and Mr. Kibbler noted that they would look at the plans and the options offered by Fire Marshall Ennis to see if they could do anything to satisfy the requirement.


Mr. Nearing noted that the use of a T would need to be done by way of a tract that was dedicated to the City.




The DRC recommended denial of the requested variance.  The applicant will advise staff as to whether or not they wish to move forward with the public hearing process.



Page 4, DRC Minutes – 07/31/03



2.         Case #3-4.17 – 4th of July Lakefest

                                                Lakefront Park

                                                Special Event (Post-Review)


Mr. David Lane and Mr. Tom Dorsey were present to represent the application.


Mr. Nearing noted that the City appreciates the job the Chamber does with the 4th of July festivities and he hoped they did not take this request for a post review as an insult.  He noted that there were a couple of problems that arose this year and the staff wanted to discuss and resolve them before planning for next year’s event had begun.




1.         Temporary electrical wiring shall comply with the National Electrical Code (NEC) 1999 Article 305. Note: Temporary wiring shall be ground-fault protected. Multi-conductor cord shall originate in an approved power outlet or panelboard and be of the type identified in Table 400-4 for hard usage or extra hard usage. Receptacles shall be the grounding type. Lamps shall be protected from accidental contact or breakage. Electrical cords shall be protected from damage and shall be placed so as to prevent trip hazards. When receptacles are installed on flexible cords/cables and exposed to weather or in wet locations, they shall be in a weatherproof enclosure.

2.         If tents over 300 sq. ft. are used they shall comply with the Florida Building Code (FBC) 2001 Section 3103.1 and Section 1019.5. Certification of flame resistance shall be filed with the building department prior to a permit being issued.

3.         Tent exits, aisles, seating, etc. shall conform to assembly occupancy. All exits shall be kept free of obstructions while tent is occupied by the public.    


PUBLIC WORKS (Post Event Comments)


1.         We recommend that no automobiles or vehicles of any type be allowed to park in the retention area.  This can be achieved either by hiring additional enforcement personnel to cover the entire Lakefront area, or construct a barricade to prevent the encroachment of vehicles beyond the bike path along Lakeshore.

2.         All sidewalks which provide handicap accessibility from Lakeshore to the bike path must remain open.  It was observed that automobiles were parked across the pedestrian access points which prevented wheelchair access in violation of ADA.


Mr. Luthie noted that vehicles were parking down in the storm water area.  He explained that this could be dangerous since that area will fill with water if there is a heavy rain causing people to get stuck.  He noted that keeping people out of that area is going to be difficult without more enforcement or the use of temporary barricades of some kind.  He went on to note that parking of vehicles along the lakefront where the sidewalks are connecting to the street was also a problem.  He explained that the handicap access was cut off and asked if the area could be fenced off next year.


Mr. Lane asked when these parking problems occurred.


Mr. Luthie noted that it was just before the fireworks display.


Mr. Nearing noted that this review was a way to share information with not only the Chamber but also other staff members.


Fire Marshall Ennis noted that the parking along Florida Avenue by vendors and Chamber members was a problem.  He explained that the fire department needed one side or the other to remain open.


Mr. Lane noted that he had advised people to park there because they had always done that in the past.


Fire Marshall Ennis noted that he thought it was a simple problem of needing more communication between everyone involved.


Page 5, DRC Minutes – 07/31/03



Mr. Lane noted that he would make sure there was no parking on Florida Avenue next year.


Mr. Lane asked Mr. Luthie what type of barricade he recommended to resolve the parking problem.


Mr. Luthie noted that the orange, plastic snow fencing would probably be enough.


Mr. Lane noted that the Chamber does this event as an offering to the Community.  He noted that without sponsors it could not be done at all and that the Chamber looses money with the event every year.  He went on to explain that the City needed to keep these things in mind when they place this kind of condition on the event.  He also noted that all of the people that work the event are volunteers.


Mr. Nearing noted that there had been discussion amongst the staff regarding the need for some type of permanent fencing in that area but for now, this was a recommendation that needs to be considered.


Mr. Lane noted that the area had been guerdoned off as recommended.


Mr. Luthie noted that perhaps some temporary signage and possible towing of some vehicles might be needed.


Major Faucett noted that the City might need to explore some other types of signage at the same time.  He noted some problems with illegal fireworks and alcohol during the event.


Mr. Luthie asked if it would be possible to include some of this information in the advertising.


Mr. Lane said it was possible but it would probably not work.


Major Faucett recommended that the Chamber approach the City Council to see if cost sharing would be possible.


Tommy Howes noted that the Rotary Club blocks off the end of each avenue and that seems to work for them.  He also noted that there had been discussion of placing some type of permanent bleachers in the area and that might solve some of the parking problems.


The option of shuttling from the new City Hall building to the lakefront was discussed.




1.         No comment.



CONDITIONS: (Original Comments)

1.         The fire rescue department will require a pre-launch inspection, standby during the launch, and a post-launch inspection for the fireworks display. Fire apparatus shall have access to launch area.

2.         Fire rescue department requests an area be designated as a first aid station located in the shade.  First- aid station to be attended by the fire rescue department. The First-aid station will require water and electric located on the north side of the sidewalk.

3.         The fire rescue department has been requested by the applicant to provide Lake Patrol during the fire works display.  We will provide one boat in the water for this purpose.  If the number of spectator boats reaches an uncontrollable level, we will remove our boat from the area since the fire rescue department has no jurisdiction or enforcement powers on the lake.

4.         All fire protection equipment; building exits and other safety features shall remain accessible.

5.         A lane shall remain open to allow emergency vehicles access if needed. (Movable barricades are acceptable.


6.                   Contact David Ennis for coordination of times and details. 407-891-6784


1.                   The Fire Rescue Department needs approximately 3 weeks notice on the times for first –aid and the fireworks display.


Page 6, DRC Minutes – 07/17/03



Mr. Nearing noted that the biggest problem he saw was the fact that more time was needed for review.  He noted that staff needed at least 8 weeks and the issue was briefly discussed.


Mr. Lane again noted that this function was put on by volunteer groups and that he couldn’t always get everything lined up that fare in advance.  He explained that he had people that would pull out at the last minute all the time.


Mr. Nearing noted that it need not be extremely detailed.  He noted that staff needed to know what the activities were and when and where they were to take place.


Major Faucett asked what the earliest date for a firm itinerary would be.  He noted that his officers find themselves acting as walking billboards that are expected to know where and when everything is.


Mr. Lane noted that he responded to Major Faucett’s request with a map at the DRC meeting.  He further noted that the fire department had shifted their location at the last minute.


Fire Marshall responded to Mr. Lane noting that the fire department did not choose to make a change.  The change was made because there were tents set up where the fire department was to be located and they had to find a different place to park.


Mr. Lane noted that he disagreed with Fire Marshall Ennis’ statement and that there was plenty of room in front of the playground that they could have used.


Fire Marshall noted that would not have been possible because there was no water or electric available without running it through the playground which would have been unsafe.


Mr. Lane noted that he heard the concerns but respectfully disagreed with Fire Marshall Ennis.  He noted that he had been consistently attentive to the concerns of the staff.


Mr. Nearing noted that when he was leaving at approximately 9:10 p.m. and crossing Lakeshore Blvd., there was a constant stream of traffic causing a possible unsafe condition.  He recommended that the barricades be left in place longer to maintain safe crossing of the pedestrians leaving the lakefront.


Major Faucett noted that he did not realize there were pedestrian concerns and he would make sure PD was available in that area to assist with street crossings next year.


Mr. Lane noted that where the fire department was to be located did not need to be an issue and that he understood the concern regarding parking on Florida Avenue.


Mr. Nearing noted that he understood there was also a problem with illegal fireworks at the event and recommended that PD make an announcement about 8:00 p.m. regarding that issue.


Major Faucett noted that there were twelve officers present during the event and they could not control the illegal fireworks.


2.                   A visible location is needed in the shade with electricity and water for the first-aid tent.

3.                   Traffic cones need to be placed in the area used this year for parking fire apparatus.

4.                   In the past one lane was kept open on lakeshore. This year lakeshore was completely blocked. In the future a lane needs to be kept open for emergency traffic.

5.                   Florida Avenue had parking from Lakeshore to Cypress, next year there shall be no parking on Florida Avenue. The fire apparatus could not gain access on this road; we will require access from Florida Avenue to the parking area and out Ohio Avenue.


OUC (ELECTRIC UTILITY) (Original Comments)


1.         For temporary electric please contact OUC Customer Service at (407) 957-7373 located at 2903 17th Street.


Page 7, DRC Minutes – 07/31/02



POLICE DEPARTMENT (Original Comments)


1.                   D.O.T. approved barricades with warning flasher at all blocked intersections. Minimum three barricades per street.

2.                   Police Department will need an itinerary with events and event times.

3.                   Police Officers will not be available for security at fireworks launch area. Please make sure security or responsible persons are present at this location prior to launch.

4.                   Beer Garden will require persons at all access points to control beverages leaving fenced area. Open container violations will be enforced without verbal warning. Please post appropriate signage prohibiting containers outside Beer Garden.


5.         Police Department does not agree with postponing fireworks launch until 10:00 PM. Controlling alcoholic beverage violations and personal fireworks launching becomes more difficult with passing time, increasing risk to spectators.


Mr. Lane asked if a one week advance notice for the schedule of events would be sufficient.


Major Faucett noted that as long as he had the information five days prior to the event he would be satisfied.


Fire Marshall Ennis noted that the fire department needs the information three weeks prior because of the fireworks.  He noted that he also needed to know what time the fireworks were to begin.


Concerns regarding problems at the beer tent were discussed with Mr. Lane noting that he knew there had been some problems this year.


PLANNING (Post Event Comments)


1.         It is strongly advised that the Chamber submit its applications in the future to permit the DRC to review and provide comment before the advertising is printed.  We wish to avoid confusion such as this year’s starting time for the fireworks.

2.         For future reference, the DRC will not approve starting the fireworks later than 9 p.m.

3.         The times of certain events and the venues of certain attractions where not known, nor marked.  Events such as the animal show, and the dunk tank may have been better attended if the times and locations were more readily available.  You may want to contact the City regarding placing the ad on its web site, or setting up a link to your site where the ad can be viewed.

4.                   The map provided to the DRC is to be followed precisely.  Any changes to the layout will require resubmittal of a revised map prior to event setup.  Very minor deviations aside, the map approved by the DRC will be the map which will be followed in the setup.

5.                   A schedule of the various events will be provided in the future before the DRC will approve the overall event.

6.                   Barricades will remain in place and be manned at least 30 minutes after the conclusion of the fireworks.  Numerous vehicular/pedestrian conflicts were observed on Lakeshore Drive shortly after the fireworks ended.


7.                   Thank you keeping the community in this year’s 4th of July.  Keeping the local vendors involved is an important part of a community event.  You are encouraged to stress that point to other local organizations which conduct events at the lakeshore.

8.                   Please be advised that the event must comply with the City’s noise ordinance which prohibits noise after 11:00 p.m.  This will include entertainment, equipment take down, generators, etc. (original comment)

9.                   As a DRC approved event, off-site signage may be utilized to advertise or direct traffic to the event. Signs must be free standing and cannot be connected to street signs, utility poles, trees, etc.  All signs must be places so as to prevent visual obstruction by both pedestrian and vehicular traffic. (original comment)


PARKS & RECREATION (Original Comments)


1.                   It is requested to have a representative on site July 2nd - 7:30 am. Intent is to finalize set up.

2.                   Locations for tents and/or mobile stage?

Page 8, DRC Minutes – 07/31/03



3.                   Our department has it scheduled to mow the grass area for the Carnival, on Monday, June 30th. Please keep the Carnival off of the grass area until mowing is completed.

4.                   It is the responsibility of the Carnival to keep the area clean of trash/debris, before, during and after the event. All trash cans shall be emptied into the dumpster before leaving.

5.                   The contractor in charge of the fire works is also required to keep their area clean of trash/debris. All disturbed areas and/or holes shall be filled in before leaving.

6.                   All trash/debris along the Lakefront (Mississippi Avenue to Louisiana Avenue) will be the responsibility of the Chamber.

7.                   Tommy Howes, Parks Superintendent is requesting to meet with Mr. David Lane, Chamber; one week prior to the event. Please call Tommy at #407-957-7246 or #407-908-8072.


1.                   I feel that the Chamber needs to be more organized when setting this event up.

·         Two (2) chairs were missing & still missing

·         One (1) table was missing & still missing

·         Charcoals were dumped in piles & not cleaned up

·         We had to take down a volleyball net that was not mentioned

·         They wanted us to put up the white fence that was not mentioned

·         Poles were planted in the ground & when they were pulled up there were lots of holes that my staff had to fill in

I have no problem providing for their needs, but I need to know what they are before the
event. They did do a better job this yea5r on picking up the trash all along Lakeshore.


Ms. Korkki noted that she needed to know what equipment and preparation was going to be needed in advance of the event.


Mr. Lane noted that the Chamber had not right to expect staff to install the white fencing.  As for the volley-ball net, he explained that moving it had become a necessity because the area was so wet.


Mr. Lane noted that he had personally counted the tables twice on Saturday and they were all there and what ever happened to them had to have happened after 1:00 on Saturday.  As for the chairs, Mr. Lane noted that the Chamber would pay for two chairs.  Mr. Lane also noted that he agreed that the Chamber should have cleaned up the charcoal.


Mr. Howes noted that the charcoal was a concern because of the danger of kids stepping on hot coals.


The holes found after the event were discussed with Mr. Howes noting that his staff had accidentally found them.  He also noted that there was a way to install fencing with PVC piping to prevent making such large holes and the issue was discussed.


Major Faucett again discussed problems with parking in the retention area.  He also noted that he understood that there had been some words with one of his officers and he apologized for the incident.  He further noted that he had made a decision to talk a couple of the regular parking spaces to set aside for motorcycle parking and noted that it would probably be a good idea to make that a standard set-up item.  Major Faucett then discussed the issue of problems with the beer tent and noted that it needed to be looked at closer next year.


Ms. Hobbs recommended that there be a preliminary event review next year far in advance of the final consideration by the committee.  Mr. Lane and the committee agreed.



The purpose of this review was to discuss problems that arose during the event.  No action or recommendation was required.




ADJOURNMENT:           The meeting was adjourned at 3:10 p.m.